Day 13 October 8, 2002
1. Names. Study questions for exam. Last day on Color Purple Thursday, on break Tuesday, exam the next Thursday. D responses for Thursday.
2. In the News: Bush speaks in Cincinnati.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=578&e=2&cid=578&u=/nm/20021008/ts_nm/iraq_dc
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/08/politics/08BUSH.html
3. On with Color Purple. Other issues that come up: how women resist, how they become empowered.
From
Sarah’s site, http://www.csubak.edu/english/engl375/walker.htmlx:
A. Walker as “Womanist”:
”Thirty-five years younger than Welty and nineteen years younger than O’Connor, Walker is more radical in her politics, which one might expect from a writer who fought on the front lines in the Civil Rights wars. "In Search of My Mother's Garden," an intriguing book of essays by Walker, she calls herself a "womanist." A womanist is a black woman who experiences the "twin afflictions" of racism and sexism.”
Note that
Walker’s been criticized for her male characters, who aren’t exactly
idealized . . . some noticed this, Sam and others. Commments?
“In the title essay, Walker says that there
are three types of black women. You will find her categories useful in
understanding the female characters in Color Purple :
1. the physically and psychologically abused
black woman
2. the exceptional black woman torn by
"contrary instincts"
3. the new black woman who can create
herself out the legacy of her maternal ancestors”
Which of these is which in CP? Celie is the first, Shug the second, right? And then the question is whether Celie can become the third. . . . Where does Nettie fit into this scheme? Is she another potential #3? What about her story, and all that Africa stuff?
Here is a link concerning
Nettie's insight. I'm sorry to say I
didn't know
that before. I always thought back to "Roots"
and remembered slave traders
trapping Africans, I didn't
know they were sometimes sold by their own
people for useful items.
http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/slavetra.html
http://www.scaruffi.com/service/about.html
B. Lesbianism, and to what extent Celie is a “real” lesbian and to what extent she’s just desperate for love and human connection. What do you think? What is it, really, that she gains from her affair with Shug? Dave wrote about this . . .
C. The law and the justice system. Sophia’s experience, especially, in which race is a crucial factor. She gets in trouble mainly because she refuses to be a “good,” subservient black woman, doesn’t she? This issue of justice is ongoing. What about their maneuvers to get her out of jail? 92 ff. Sofia, 103: “White folks is a miracle of affliction.”
D.
Women and education and how to respond to oppression. At first
Celie’s response is not just passivity, but acceptance of her ignorance and
powerlessness. Being a tree: trees are not just hard, they’re immobile and,
well, dumb, right? 122-123 Nettie to Celie on God and keeping quiet and
ignorance and learning. 124: “There are colored people in the world who want us
to know!” Seeing New York City, and Harlem, where black people have money and
property.
What’s Celie’s first response to the letters? 134: “I think I feel better if I kill him.” Shug gets her to sewing: “A needle instead of a razor in my hand.”
160 the real story of Pa and the family. “You must be sleep,” she writes to God.
Next one she writes to Nettie. And that leads into the next issue:
E. Religion. 142 Olinka and roofleaf and their religion. That crucial passage 175-179, discussion with Shug. About God as old white guy vs. God as everywhere. The color purple. Duane Friesen’s reading of that passage, 171-172, maybe a way of softening Walker’s own view a bit?
What about religion as an issue in modern America? Even among those who claim to be Christians there’s a very wide range of beliefs and practices and priorities and politics. George Bush claimed during his campaign that Jesus Christ was his favorite political philosopher, though he has not invoked Jesus much in the last year or so . . .
What role does religion play in this book? What about “Pa’s” first statement/command to Celie? For him God is just another means of control, a means of maintaining his dominance and covering up his crimes and sins.
So what is God worried about? Women getting jobs and putting their children in day care? Gays and lesbians and the right to pray to Jesus out loud in school? Killing the enemies of America anywhere in the world?
Religion in Color Purple.
“The Color Purple was published in 1982. It received much attention and praise and was awarded both the Pulitzer Prize and the American Book Award that year. Walker described The Color Purple in the following ways:
The
Color Purple is "a theological work examining the journey from the
religious back to the spiritual." |
[The
Color Purple] "is the pagan transformation of God from patriarchal
male supremacist into trees, stars, wind and everything else. . .." |
[The
Color Purple's] intent [is] to explore the difficult path of someone who
starts out in life already a spiritual captive, but who, through her own
courage and the help of others, breaks free into the realization that she,
like Nature itself, is a radiant expression of the heretofore perceived as
quite distant Divine." |
http://www.uwyo.edu/wch/bdpguidecp.htm
Next time: be sure to pay close attention to the scenes where Shug and Celie talk about leaving, especially the encounters between Celie and Mr. ____. And to the further encounters they have in the last part of the book.
And think about a key issue that we’ll be talking more about: where do we locate responsibility? If people have tough lives, how much do we expect them to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps, how much do they need help from “outside,” formal or informal? The set of questions at the AAWN website, fascinating in what they suggest. http://aawn1.tripod.com/
Angel Lombardo
The link I found was under “woman haters”
www.theabsolute.net/minefield/misc.html#guide. This man tries to explain to other men how to understand a woman. Yeah, he has it all figured out. It is like the blind leading the blind.
Brad Immel
One website I found was at http://wwwvms.utexas.edu/~melindaj/bio.html. It is a biography of Alice Walker.
Adam Drake
http://www.afsc.org/pwork/1200/122k05.htm this site is about the future of black america and how it's going to get a lot shorter if the judicial system doesn't do something about the racial effect on incarceration.
Lisa Langood
I found a web site that lists some horrifying statistics on family violence at http://endabuse.org/programs/display.php3?DocID=77. What has changed is how these issues are dealt with. There are now laws against discrimination against someone’s race, gender, or religion. Child abusers and wife beaters can be put in jail. . . . I found various groups for incest survivors on the Internet. V.O.I.C.E.S. in Action, found at http://www.voices-action.org/index.html is one such group. The organization reports on what is being done to protect children, and allows incest survivors to share their stories. She could also find help to deal with domestic violence. The Family Violence Prevention Fund at http://endabuse.org/index2.php3 provides a lot of info dealing with this issue.
Jill Kerlin
This is a useful resource when reading the book. It gives character analyses and overviews of the letters: http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/purple/context.html. This website has no real content, but does have some interesting questions to think about: http://www.uwyo.edu/wch/bdpguidecp.htm. This website gives statistics on domestic violence: http://www.dvsheltertour.org/fact.html#widespread. The book focuses on the abuse of African Americans, but I was interested to discover that domestic violence occurs equally among African American and Caucasian women.
Erika Keegan
http://www.library.csi.cuny.edu/dept/history/lavender/walker.html
Student Responses
At some points in this book I
found myself getting a little annoyed. This story seems to be about black
men that are just as bad as the white people that enslaved them. Celie was
treated so awfully, she was a prisoner in her own life. The details and the
words that are used in this book are disgusting to me. I guess they add
to the direction the author wanted the story to go. This story leaves me
with a sick feeling in my stomach. Its hard for me to think that anyone's
life is like this, but I am sure that there are many people with similar
stories out there...both black and white.
I find it interesting that Celie
has become a product of her environment. She has had such a bad
experience with the men in her life. Most children would tend to see God
as a father figure, but for Celie that is far from what she is able to see.
Her father mistreated, abused and raped her. She is unable to see God in
the male aspect that is most commonly used. She also has tendencies
towards homosexuality. This stems from the abuse that she has expected
from men.
Domestic violence is a
cycle. Celie had become part of the cycle in so many ways. When
Harpo had expressed problems with Sophia, she had told him to beat her.
Celie knew no other way- she had always been beaten herself. But in this
story, Celie finds help to break out of the cycle. She finds hope in Shug
and the revival of her sister Nettie. This story takes place in a time
when there was not much support for women and individuals in domestic violence
situations. In fact it was usually hush, hush...especially when sexual abuse
was involved. Now there are all sorts of support groups. All one
needs to do is search in the internet. http://famvi.hypermart.net/linker/linker.html This
is an example of just one web page that brings together any number of support
groups.
Becky Yoder
The Color Purple is a very interesting book
to say the least. The language
can be quite vulgar at times and it's a very
descriptive book, if you know
what I mean.
I feel badly for Celie. She seems at such a loss in the world. I think
that part of the reason why she lets Shug
stay in the house, even though
she's just the mistress is because Shug gives
her the attention that she
needs.
All her husband wants is a piece.
That's all she's good for in his
eyes, to cook and clean and serve his
needs. Shug actually talks to Celie
like she matters. What I can't figure out is why Shug started the sex thing
with Celie.
She has all the attention that she needs. I just really don't
understand that part.
I also feel badly for Celie because she
thought her sister was dead, and
then she learns that Nettie is actually alive
and doing quite well in
Africa.
I could be wrong but isn't it a legal offense now to deny somebody
their mail?
It probably wasn't like that during this time period but still
it's definitely not right. I think that Mr. _____ was punishing Nettie
as
much as he was punishing Celie. I think he was more just taking out his
frustration and anger on Celie. In Celie's defense, I can understand was
she was so mad about this that she kept
saying she just wanted to kill him.
Her sister meant everything to her and she
really didn't have anybody to
talk to for the longest time and he was
denying her that all along.
For the website...I wasn't really sure what
exactly would go along with this
topic, so I tried to find a website about the
"Olinka dialect" which is
mentioned in one of Nettie's letters, page
127, beacuse I had never heard of
it and wanted to find out more. Typing it in on google led me to this
webpage that is actually about the author,
alice walker, and it talks about
where she got the material about Africa.
http://www.csubak.edu/english/engl375/walker.htmlx
-Sarah Parker
i find this book to be
interesting, and a bit on the disturbing style. But its the kind of
disturbing that really makes one think, and that's a good thing.
I'd like to respond to the
religious ideas found in the second third of the book. First of all, the
Jesus with hair as lamb's wool comment. I have personally long been of
the opinion that Jesus was not a white guy with a mullet as he was born in
egypt, if nothing else. But to read nettie's letter with the lamb's wool reference
was very intriguing as i had never heard or read that before. i even got
out my bible and checked the concordance, but could not find the verse. i
assume that it is in a different translation, probably one that isn't very
popular because it's considered "radical" or something. At any
rate, regardless of whether the reference is accurate or not, I think it serves
as a reminder that what we are indoctrinated with -- even in church -- isn't
always accurate.
The other portion on religion
that i'd like to touch on is on pages 199-204. this was the last chapter
i read. Honestly, I found the discussion of who God is and what God is
fascinating. just as with Jesus, the church, society, someone or
something, has instilled in us a certain picture or idea of what God is and
what he looks like. i think Shug is right on when she speaks of not being
able to relate to the God that the church "gave" her. To truly
grasp what God is/was, Shug had to make God personal. Though I don't know
that Shug's statement of not being able to find God in church is true, some of
her other thoughts resonated well with me.
I also appreciated her comments
on God creating and wanting us to notice the little things in life. And
they had a lot less to take for granted than I do. i was a good
reminder....perhaps alice walker should have been a theologian.
I'd also like to comment briefly
on the opening discussion from class last thursday. this has little to do
with the readings, more with my own thoughts and conversations. i have
long been a christian who believes that God is too big to fit just one
religion. however, at that same time, i think of those, particularly in
sudan, where to be a christian is to be persecuted and even killed for your
beliefs. and i think, if there's nothing more to christianity than any
other religion, than why not convert to islam and save yourself some pain? i am
very conflicted on this issue because i can see both sides very clearly.
on the one hand, i can see the point tim made in class (about being raised in a
certain country typically impacts one's religion), and have used that point in
many discussions myself. however, i'd like to think that those who are
willing to die for their religious beliefs are not dying in vain. i guess
i'd like to say thanks for the discussion. though i have thought many
times on the issue before, it's always good to hear other's opinions on the
subject.
my website is http://www.angelfire.com/oh/AncientKnowledge/raceofjesus.html.
-erin
-Erin Miller
I am really enjoying
this book. I found it an interesting change in this section that a
religious standpoint was brought in. It seemed to be two different
extremes going from Celie's chapters to Nettie's. It made me feel that
even though there is evil in the world it is also counteracted with good.
Corrine
surprised me by how she acted once they moved to Africa. She turned cold
toward Nettie and limited the amount of time she was allowed to spend with
her, Samuel, and the children. When they were in America she was very
kind towards Nettie and let her act almost as her equal, but once they got to
Africa, and everyone started saying that Corrine's children looked like Nettie,
her attitude changed. Corrine began to resent Nettie and started to act
like the women in Africa and tried to stay away from Nettie.
http://www.africaaction.org/action/women.htm
It is hard for
me to realize that women are still looked down upon in other countries. I always think that this inequality stopped
long ago, but that is still not the case for women in other countries. It is weird to think that women are not
aware of the freedoms that we have in America.
We take for granted so much in America and this is just one aspect of
it.
I do like the
religious standpoint that is brought into the book. Especially because it comes from Shug whom would be the last
person that I would expect it from. Her
words were inspirational to me and made me reevaluate my relationship with God
and how I feel about Him.
Stephanie Rush
I'm not sure what kind of
response you are looking for from the book. I guess one reason for that
is I don't fully understand how this book applies to our class. I mean
there are many issues that we have underlined from this book, such as gender,
class, and so on but from what we were talking about in The Missing Piece to
this book is really odd. And my thoughts might be because of the things
that go on in the book and some of the scenerios that are involved such as the
homosexual acts. I'm stilly trying to figure out where this whole book is
going. There seems to be like a love triangle along with the issue with
Celie and her husband as well as Shug. In a way it is just a different
type of reading from like humanities. So far i think it is a good book
but having a hard time in figuring out how it fits with this class.
This book is giving a good
insight though about how some people live their lives. How badly women
are treated and how African Americans were treated as well. Celie all her
life was never loved for and she in turn could never really love anyone else
besides her sister and Shug. Even still there are major issues with these
people too, being that she hasn't seen her sister for some time and Shug is
sleeping with her husband. A very messed up relationship between everyone
yet still they all are together. Celie's self esteem and self worth is
next to nothing because of the way she has been treated and I know this happens
often today as well. Some people ponder why women stay in a abusive home
but when they have nothing else then where else can you turn too? It is
interesting to see how everything will turn out in this book, where the
relationships will go and will they last.
-Jeremy Nussbaum
The Color Purple seems like
it can be a tough read at first becausion of
Celie's narration, but the
themes are actually more simple and direct than
other books I've read. There's a definite theme of the marginalized
and the
oppressed slowly waking up
from their passivity. For example,
after Sqeak
is raped she assertively
asks to be called by her own real name.
Celie,
after finding Nettie's
letters, begins to decide things for herself and
eventually runs away. Not to go over the book too much though, I
also
noticed how "no good
deed went unpunished", as with Sofia teaching Miss
Millie to drive and not
being able to see her children or when Sqeak is
raped for trying to rescue
Sofia (also Celie's own father when he
lynched
for being successful). This points to the fact that trying to make
it in
spite of oppression or
resistance in general can have its consequences. I
also saw a theme of
empowerment through redefinitions...
I must say though, the idea
of a married virgin I found interesting.
I
suppose the ability to
redefine your world and, especially, your past, can
be very empowering. Instead of accepting past violences, being
able to
reevaluate your memories in
a new light helps deal with such abuses.
In a
similar way, I think
Christianity has the ability to help people see
themselves as
"pure" again through the blood of Christ.
Redefinition continues when
Shug helps Celie see god as more than a white
man with a beard. I think it is healthy not to see men as God,
however, I
don't find seeing God as
merely an It a particularly constructive metaphor
in most cases. I can see though, that the Bible's
Father-children analogy
sometimes falls short for
those who have had poor earthly fathers.
This is
a recurring issue in the
church that only time and grace may heal.
So
perhaps in Celie's case,
seeing God as an It for now is constructive if it
helps her to continue to
pray.
I identified a little with Celie when she suddenly stopped writing
to God.
In a word, her world had
become utterly crazy. She didn't think
God could
be active in such a world
and she was blinded to the all the blessings God
had given her until Shug
pointed them out. I think at times,
when your life
is turned upside down it is
easy to feel like God is not there, especially
if you don't realize His
grace in your life. It usually takes
outside help
to get a new perspective.
In general I found Celie's
letters somewhat more interesting than Nettie's
even though I could
understand Nettie's English better and despite the plot
twists contained in Nettie's
letters. Celie's perspective is
definitely the
more unique of the two. I don't say Nettie's letters are useless
though,
they give a good perspective
on an educated view in light of oppression.
For example, I found
Nettie's disgust with the Africans for selling her
people into slavery quite
insightful.
All in all this is a good
book, though I would not recommend it for children
due its mature language and
themes (which are painfully necessary in certain
parts). I do find that all the men in the story are
weak-minded, but I
suppose that is a not a
small exaggeration of the facts of life.
I disagree
with Shug and Celie's affair
and find it distasteful, though I understand
how the author is trying to
show Celie is growing sexually without the need
for men.
Oh, and you want a website
to look at.
Here is a links concerning
Nettie's insight. I'm sorry to say I
didn't know
that before. I always thought back to "Roots"
and remembered slave traders
trapping Africans, I didn't
know they were sometimes sold by their own
people for useful items.
http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/slavetra.html
http://www.scaruffi.com/service/about.html
Cheers!
Sam Shepard
Sorry
about the tardyness jenzamail was not working right
I have really enjoyed this book thus far. I am starting to see the
transformation that Celie is going through, her self image is growing. She for
the first time is becoming an independent woman of Albert. I also think that
her relationship with Shug is very interesting. The love each other as a
couple, but I would not say that they are lesbians. Even though they have
experienced with some of this activity I don’t think it is done on a regular
basis. I have typically been one to say that being gay is wrong, but in this
case of Celie you can’t hardly blame her for this because she can’t trust men.
She hints on this but all of the men with major roles have beaten her and raped
her until she can’t feel anymore. Celie is such a powerful woman and even
though she has not seen Nettie for over 30 yrs by the end they are still very
close. I was really sad to see Nettie die. Celie is taking it really hard. But
it has enhanced her religious life. For every bad event God mak! es a good
thing happen
website www.governor.state.tx.us/women/women_suffrage.htm
- 23k